STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
One thing that's undeniable is that the vote makes history. President Trump posted on social media, quote, "Republicans have tried doing this for 40 years and failed, but no more. This is big" - which it is. So let's talk to the CEO of NPR, Katherine Maher, who's in our studios, as I mentioned. Good morning. Welcome.
KATHERINE MAHER: Good morning.
INSKEEP: Thanks for coming by. I know you've had a busy week, and we should note before we get started neither you nor any NPR executive has had any input on what we just broadcast or has been briefed on the questions we're about to ask. Michel, go for it.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
So this is done, Katherine, so we should look forward. But before we look forward, we do want to ask you why you think that the argument in favor of public media didn't prevail.
MAHER: I think this is an exceptional time in American politics. There's no question that members of the House, senators that we spoke to on both sides of the aisle in private support what public media does, whether that is their local station, whether that is educational programming on television for children, you know, but there is a tremendous amount of political pressure right now to align with the administration's political priorities. We always knew this was going to be an uphill fight. We appreciate all the private support. We appreciate all the efforts to find funds for us and for our colleagues at local stations that have been made by legislators on both sides of the aisle.
MARTIN: You heard Senator Schmitt - we all heard Senator Schmitt refer to your past tweets. I want to point out you were publicly attacked from almost the moment that you took the job, literally weeks into the job. Some of it, you know, related to these tweets, but some of it seemed aimed at you so personally. Did you ever have a moment of thinking you were not the right messenger to defend public radio in this moment or public media in this moment?
MAHER: I was attacked before I started the job. I - of course, I've thought about that. I've wondered what the most important thing is for public media, whether - and from my perspective, it's the survival and continued public service that we provide and asked myself and I've asked other members within the public media system whether it would be good for me to step aside. And I have to say that consistently, the answer was that really focuses on the moment that we're in as opposed to the future that we need, and we need to all be aligned on that future because regardless of the will of Congress in this moment, public media will survive as a system and as an institution in America.
MARTIN: So let's talk about that. Is there going to be an immediate impact from this rescission? We've seen that, you know, cuts made to other similar entities like the National Endowment for the Humanities, for example. There are programs that literally had to shut down, you know, almost within weeks. Is there going to be an immediate impact to public broadcasting?
MAHER: There already has been an immediate impact to public broadcasting. The president's executive order from months ago, which prevented public media from receiving federal funds, meant that $30 million in educational programming for children's television was immediately cut. So we're talking "Daniel Tiger." We're talking shows that are classics for American children and children outside of the United States, too, who have been raised on "Sesame Street" and "Mister Rogers" and more recent versions of that show.
The immediate response to this particular round of cuts will be that we are likely to see many stations, particularly those referenced by Senators Murkowski and others, go dark. These are stations that serve rural communities. They are stations that receive, in the case of Alaska, up to 70% of their budget in federal funds. And we're talking small budgets. We're talking 500,000, $600,000. They are likely to go dark. Stations in places like West Virginia, South Dakota, 50% of their budget - federal dollars. Stations that historically Black colleges and universities, stations that cover music forms that are unique to American musical tradition. All of these are at risk.
INSKEEP: Katherine, as I'm sure you know very well, public media had some Republican support. There were a number of Republicans who were inclined to vote yes and were persuaded to vote no. One of them, Don Bacon of Nebraska, said a very interesting thing. He observed that this money that was just clipped was two years of advanced funding so that public media would be funded and they could be independent. But he goes on to say, I was reassured by House Republican leadership that PBS would receive funding for next year, and it would go to annual funding after that. They're going into this appropriations process. The idea is that they would put some money back in, but just on a shorter leash. Will you seek that?
MAHER: Absolutely. We're already in conversation about the FY26 fiscal process. That is - or sorry, the - which is ongoing right now. I think, though, the thing to understand is that many of our stations are already in that budget year. That budget year started for them at the beginning of this month. It will begin for others at the beginning of October, which is the federal fiscal year. So we're talking about stations that are expecting to receive those funds imminently from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and we have been told by colleagues at the Corporation for Public Broadcasting that they could be bankrupt by the beginning of October.
INSKEEP: Even granting that, would it be wise at this point to avoid public funding, given that the administration has been very open about the fact that they are determined to control everything and anything that public money touches?
MAHER: Well, I think that that is a question that every individual station is meant - has to answer. I mean, we are a network of independent, locally owned stations, and my colleagues sitting in stations that have taken a catastrophic, potentially insurmountable loss are absolutely justified in continuing to seek public funding, and NPR, part of our role and responsibility, is to advocate for that on behalf of the Hill. So we will be right back there, continuing to ask for the support from the American people because it is so important to the communities that we serve.
INSKEEP: Help me rethink public media and the business model. Some people laugh if you talk about a business model at all with public media. But...
MAHER: Oh, I think we need more of a...
INSKEEP: (Laughter).
MAHER: ....Business model in public media. That's maybe part of why we're here.
INSKEEP: Well, what is a way to make news pay that you think NPR hasn't tried or hasn't been willing to try in the past?
MAHER: Well, if you look around news in general, I think making news pay is always challenging. But actually, NPR is one of the few organizations out there as a news organization that receives a relative proportion of our earned dollars from news. Most other organizations subsidize it with entertainment and cultural programming. We actually, through our podcasts and through our broadcasts, make most of our funds either through donations or through underwriting and public - other forms of donation support through our news reporting. It is some of the best stuff that we do. It is - I mean, it is - we do lots of excellent things, but it is one of those things that continues to find an audience in return.
INSKEEP: But you've got to make more, apparently.
MAHER: Look, I think every organization is going to need a bigger boat - right? - who work in the news industry, and we are certainly one of them. There is, I think, an opportunity for us as we move forward to really go back and take a look at the way that we've been structured around how we make those funds. The good thing for NPR is that about 1 to 2 to 3 - depending on how you want to account for it in any given year - percent of our funding comes from federal funding. That means that we are going to have some time to understand the implications of this and make up the loss.
INSKEEP: Although the FCC, the Federal Communications Commission, in an openly hostile act, is investigating another source of revenue, underwriting credits, the things that sound a little like ads on the air. Do you expect to win or lose that?
MAHER: They are investigating that at our stations because we do not actually have a broadcast license at NPR.
INSKEEP: Got it.
MAHER: We have a satellite license, which is a little different. You know, we have a very rigorous processes of review for all of the underwriting, and so I think we're going to be on solid ground there.
INSKEEP: Katherine Maher is the president and CEO of NPR News. Thanks for coming in at the end of a long week.
MAHER: Thank you.
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