Updated June 26, 2026 at 11:19 AM CDT
Former Vice President Mike Pence played a key role in bringing President Trump to power in 2016. By putting his name on the Republican ticket, he helped reassure the Republican establishment and evangelical voters who were wary of Trump's brash brand of populism.
Pence's departure from Trump's leadership of the Republican party began when Trump called on Pence to refuse to certify the results of the 2020 election — pressure Pence rejected.
"For four years, we had a close working relationship. It did not end well," Pence wrote in his memoir So Help Me God, which was released in 2022.
In the years since leaving office, Pence has been advocating for an ideological restructure of the Republican party, and founded the policy and advocacy organization Advancing American Freedom. Pence builds on the theme of reimagining the Republican party in his new book What Conservatives Want, which provides a critique of the second Trump administration and what he terms the "populist right."
In an interview with Morning Edition, Pence detailed to NPR's Steve Inskeep his critique of the second Trump administration, shared his perspective on civil rights legislation and challenged Trump's tariffs and other interventions in the economy.
Listen to the full interview by clicking on the blue play button above; and read highlights from the conversation below.
'The populist right' does not represent conservative beliefs
Pence believes that Trump has embraced "the populist right" over traditional conservatives in the Republican party.
The sale of economic American company U.S. Steel to Nippon Steel in Japan exemplifies this shift, Pence said.
In his first term, President Trump opposed the sale. But in his second term, he approved the sale and took a golden share — a class of shares in which a government can own a very small percentage of the company but has outsized voting rights.
Pence said that he was taken aback by Trump's decision to take a golden share.
Free trade is essential to American conservatism
Pence takes umbrage with his former boss' tariff-laden economic policy.
Pence said it violates conservatism's bedrock belief in the power of free trade, and Trump has gone about granting exceptions to tariffs in an unfair way.
Granting waivers to large corporations from certain tariffs is "one of the lesser reported aspects of the tariff regime that's been imposed by the administration," Pence added.
Trump and Pence ran in 2020 on a mission to "drain the swamp," rooting out government corruption and wasteful spending. However, Pence said Trump appears to have shifted from those goals.
"There's maybe nothing more swampy than the battle over getting tariff waivers for big business," Pence said.
Women's rights on the right
There is a debate among the ultraconservative right about the role of women in civic life.
The concept of "household voting," has become a familiar talking point for ultra-right-wing communities online. Supporters of "household voting" advocate that every American household should get one vote, the vote being that of the husband's. This concept has been promoted by figures such as Abby Johnson, a prominent anti-abortion activist who spoke at the 2020 Republican National Convention. When asked about whether he supported household voting, Pence said he is not aligned
"It's one person, one vote in this country. And people have bled and died for that principle throughout the years of our history," Pence said.
He added that American families don't need to be propped up by government programs to boost childbirth. "What American families need is an application of the kind of principles that will create higher wages, more opportunities, more jobs," Pence said.
Should conservatives stand for civil rights?
Pence said he was an admirer of senator and one-time presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.
Notably, Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
"Should conservatives stand for civil rights?" asked Inskeep.
Pence responded that civil rights are important to conservatives, but that equality of opportunity is what legislation ought to enshrine, not equality of outcome.
Pence added that he stood by the Supreme Court's decision to ban partisan gerrymandering on the basis of race, rendering ineffective a key provision of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
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